The Hyundai Exo--a hydrogen fuel cell car

It’s early but I think this is pretty exciting:

The innovation and rapid moves away from authoritarian controlled energy is impressive and hopeful.

Plenty of issues to be resolved, and more issues will arise, but this is an inflection point, the next 10 years.

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I’ve been in a Hyundai Tucson fuel cell vehicle before (about 10 years ago). Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are great for range anxiety (fill up fast) but infrastructure and H2 generation are still somewhat immature. As mentioned in the article, stations are pretty much only southern CA. Hope they expand. Generating H2, a mobile fuel rather than charging a battery (slower but improving), also takes energy including the normal losses from conversion so we have to get better there. Dr. Goodenough at Texas (my grad school) invented the Lithium battery and a newer one that is even better and is still working on a better one at nearly 100 years old. Nobel prize winner.

I think all advancements should be on the table. I just ran a 50A wire to my garage for future Tier 2 charging station (finishing the basement so better now). But we’ve had out cars since 2010/2011. My opinion is we need to go back to more nuclear with fuel recycling and of course strict safety. But hoping fusion will happen in the next 30 years (old joke if you know it).

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I’m guessing the oil companies are already plowing money into research on how to produce hydrogen in massive amounts.

I love humankind’s ability to figure things out.

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Cool, but the question will be can mere morals afford it?

As one who drives Hybrids that get 35 (RAV4) and 43 (Accord) miles per gallon average, making the next jump in the carbon free evolution is going to require a vehicle price point lower than $35k, as both of my hybrids cost less than 30k.

The reason why Ford had success in the last century is he built cars people could afford. The biggest reason we haven’t seen the transition is because only people who can afford a boutique price tag purchases the new electric vehicles and/or plug in hybrids.

There are infrastructure considerations, too, but hydrogen vehicles/hybrids would be a better option than my current vehicles. Just hope I will be able to afford one.

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We have a ways to go.

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From water (electrolysis): uses too much electricty that has to be generated somehow (gas, nuclear, wind, hydro [waning), etc.). Could do desalination for fresh water then split it but just doesn’t add up

From natural gas: CH4 - lots of hydrogen but it comes down to what to do with the carbon … i have a friend in the industry and have learned there’s brown gas, blue gas, green gas (depends on source but mostly categorizing the natural gas we get from the ground in various ways). All this also takes energy, then has to be transported …

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Or buying patents and sitting on them…?

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I’ve made my cracks about Tesla before - and how it looks like a cheap Mazda but the ‘cool factor’ overcomes all of that for people. But the rash of social media posts showing what Teslas are really like make me not want to touch one with a 10 foot pole. I think the real car manufacturers are going to come in with their expertise and destroy Tesla within the next 5 years. In other words, I wouldn’t be buying Tesla stock for any long-term strategy. Here are some pretty consistent things you can see out there:

  1. Manufacturing quality - from how they are assembled and simple things like the uniform spacing of panels, to things falling apart and disintegrating
  2. Old batteries essentially bricking the car - the replace them is so cost prohibitive some people have opted to literally just blow up their older model Tesla’s because they can get more from the PR than they can from trying to sell it at that point
  3. Bugs, bugs and more bugs. Saw a video yesterday of a lady in a week old Tesla, the car straight up dies on the freeway - not only that, but not warning, just stops - she can’t even coast off the road. She says it shows 40% charged and 150+ miles of range left. Tesla denies it is their problem and tell her she shouldn’t drive with the range on as it varies.
  4. Customer service nightmares - this same woman said it took 4 days for Tesla to even look at her car and this isn’t uncommon
  5. All the cool tech isn’t so cool when it dies - the hidden handles and all that don’t work and to get an override to get into the car means disassembling the car.
  6. Tesla continues to control the car - one person claims that Tesla locked him out of his car and wouldn’t unlock it so he could retrieve his personal items while he waited for it to be towed and serviced.

I could go on and on - but when I enter the EV market I’ll be far more likely to buy one from Hyundai or Ford than I would from Tesla. I’m normally not a Cadillac sort of a guy, but their new EV actually looks awesome.

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At this point, I would rather see the earth engulfed in a ball of fire before I gave Elon Musk a penny.

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In a prior research job for the gov’t, I worked with Ford, GM (Chevy), and Toyota on their EV and PHEV technology. esp. as they move into wide bandgap power electronics. They have the infrastructure to do it and are heading that direction better but get bogged down with their traditional/ICE businesses (some have split things apart). Tesla still seems to be figuring out battery manufacturing better (those huge places like the one outside Reno) and battery technology is the hindrance right now.

I don’t like Elon, but I do like that what he’s tried to do at Tesla is pushing everyone to advance. It has accelerated the disruption.

I still hope AI driving comes along and the whole paradigm shifts (you either own and ‘uber’ it out during the day or you subscribe to a car service that picks you up, delivers you, moves onto the next). Think Minority Report. No parking lots needed, no garages needed, self-drive cars move people around all day and swap out batteries at some location (replace gas stations/parking lots). But self-driving still has some pretty serious bugs on recognizing some pretty common things. Could happen in 10 years, but most likely 50.

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Now if we can figure out how to make beer a part of the equation, this new tech will truly save the world. :wink:

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Wouldnt it make sense for the western states to pump a bunch of ocean water to the west desert and have an nuclear + solar facility that could desalinate half the water for the southwest states (nevada, utah, new mexico & arizona) then the other half for Hydrogen production? Tons of solar possibility and add in a nuclear plant for the night.

I’ve been reading about creating H2 from ammonia. Seems to be a “relatively” simple procedure. Makes transport simpler, and less dangerous at the same time.

I know a friend of a friend of a person resembling a neighbor. They bought Tesla for the home and had 2 panels delivered and installed, not one as ordered. They made repeated calls and apparently emails too without response.
They love the panels.

Interesting. I mean, Ammonia is usually made from coal or methane (natural gas) but may be a good intermediary. Seems interesting to strip the hydrogen off of methane, then combined back with Nitrogen to make ammonia just to then have to take the Nitrogen back off for Hydrogen consumption. Doesn’t seem like the most ‘green’ process. But mobile fuels are always going to carry a loss of efficiency, sometimes for safety or ease of transport.

I wasn’t aware of how ammonia is generally produced, just thought that the idea of using ammonia was an interesting idea. For transport I think it’s a better idea than a H2 fuel cell, much less likely to explode. Ammonia does have its own issues, but being explosive is usually part of them.

I never knew there were so many Poindexters on this board​:nerd_face::nerd_face:

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Then there is the “Star Trek” gnome collection…the “Dr. Who” chess set…a COVID model…a Rocket Raccoon model…the Charlie Brown Christmas Tree (with U of U glass ornament)…yeah, might be a little nerdy.

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There’s this too. https://lightyear.one/

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