Larry gone

Oh, I don’t know. You may be correct, but the program has gone backwards in the last 5 years, or at best tread water. I was thinking about comparing LK to Coach Mac, even Mac did better the year prior to being fired that LK. At least Mac went bowling a year earlier, IIRC. Mac’s biggest issue was apathy in the fanbase. LK never really had a fanbase to work with thanks to Giac and Boylen.

I can see why, even I did this earlier in the year, you call LK the men’s BBall equivalent of McBride. I just think that the PAC tourney games were too little too late with LK, and the comparison died with them. I think LK is better than Jim Fassel at Utah, but not quite McBride at Utah.

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Why was Krystkowiak fired?

He wasn’t awful or incompetent, and he didn’t cheat. He took over a program that was, in the words of former AD Chris Hill, “below rock bottom,” and made it respectable again. He was above average, but that doesn’t quite cut it when you aren’t dancing more than a couple times a decade, not at a place with a proud basketball tradition such as Utah.

Krystkowiak’s teams always played hard and never quit, not even during the trying 2020-21 season held amid a pandemic. His players rarely got in trouble off the court during his decade of service, and he contributed to the university financially and with his time.

But when you are the 13th highest-paid coach in college basketball, according to USA Today’s figures, and you don’t take a team to the NCAA Tournament for five straight years, you are not giving your employer enough bang for the buck.

Simple as that.

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This is a sad day. LarryK was the best thing to happen to BYU basketball. I always look forward to March so I can watch The Exodus of Utah basketball players from the program into the transfer portal.

I once ate an entire little Caesars pizza by myself in one sitting.

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Lol. He had ten years to get his own guys in the program. :joy: Kids don’t want to play for him.

You folks help me with timing, but I thought about the K3 era a lot yesterday after I learned that he and Utah are parting ways. My view is that a decade is enough time to take a program from below rock bottom to a contender. The Utes contended once or twice, made a deep run into the NIT…once. So even as some of us are saddened in his departure, I believe Utah can find such a coach. K3 has reached his level, we have seen it in the last few years. Further, I don’t buy the narrative that Utah cannot recruit good players to SLC.

The last decade of Utah basketball has three phases. The Big Recovery, the Wright- Pöltl Peak, and the Long Slow Slide.

The Big Recovery was a fun period because of how hard the players worked. Those games even when Utah lost were fun. Full of surprise and potential. Larry had not much to work with, and did well with so little.

The Delon Wright - Jakob Pöltl Peak period was magic. Even though Utah did not go that deep in the Dance, the Utah we used to know seemed to be back. Utah was on the road to being great again. During this period, some issues began with players. At the tail end of this period, turnover began to accelerate, and we heard about “turds.” Beginning in this time, I noticed that K3 would call out a player on the post-game show if they had not done well in a game. That struck me as odd, even then.

The Long Slow Slide characterized the last five years really. The zenith of Utah’s recovery was relatively short lived. The team over achieved according to Pac-12 analysts, but it felt like a rebuilding year, only year after year. The increase in turnover in players was puzzling, and continuous, such that the team really became a new project season after season. I remember once commenting on the toll and sheer cost in recruiting only to have a kid leave the program after a year, or two, or three. And the team began to lose players you wish did not leave. Obviously, Utah has not done well in the Pac-12 tournament during this period, with its only win coming this season against a team they should beat.

Anyway, time to see what the program can do…again.

Here is a summary of K3’s career at Utah:

Coach’s final record is 183-139 (.568) over a 10 year period. Under K3, the Utes played in five postseason appearances, two NCAA Tournaments and three NIT. In one of the NIT runs, the Utes lost the final to Penn State in 2017-18. K3 never won a conference title. In the 2016 Pac-12 conference tournament, Utah finished runner-up.

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Dude went full on nuclear.

Actually, we loved him. He was the best thing that ever happened to BYU basketball. Most of us are sad to see him go.

I once ordered an octopus rice pizza while living in Hong Kong. Good stuff that.

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I’d forgotten that. And this year, after he suffered from Covid19, I could see how drawn he looked. I want to believe that Harlan took all of those factors into consideration. But still, K3 was surrounded with competent coaches. The turnover in players cannot reasonably be attributed to his health issues.

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(Pats on the head) Good try sport. You’ll get the hang of this trolling thing eventually. Keep trying. [/condescending tone]

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I’m with you on this. The other trend I noticed this year was how well the team played in the first half and how poorly they played after halftime. I do recall the times when the Utes put together a complete game or made a heroic comeback. But in particular in a good half a dozen games, the final three +|- minutes the absolutely sloppy play with dribbling off of one’s leg or tossing the ball out of bounds or missing most FTs or a boneheaded shot. It looked at times like the guys did not want to win.

Plummer’s body language in the last win in the post game interview was revealing, like he did not look comfortable. Also Rylan Jones at least to me looked really off this year. I could be making stuff up, but these incidents struck me.

Maybe this is purely coincidental, but Donny Daniels leaving I thought was interesting from a timing perspective. Then Larry not showing up for a post game interview late in the season after “one of those losses”. The problems were manifested in my opinion and Harlan did what he is paid to do.

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Often it’s not just one thing that gets a coach fired. There were many straws that added up to this one happening. But the one that keeps sticking in my mind today is the Lohner situation. I feel for LK because that whole thing could not have gone worse for him than it did. He would have been better off just never reaching out to Caleb. But having Lohner, a kid whose skillset we REALLY needed, slink off to our bitter rival, too late in recruiting cycle to do anything about it to a coach that seems a little slimy anyway. It just all felt like a huge blow, and it really put LK behind the 8 ball as this season got underway.

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The one thing about Utah basketball that still has me perplexed is where do we fit in the PAC12. In the MWC/WAC Utah was at the top of the conference in hoops talent. Add some average to good coaching and we could make the tournament consistently, and with superior coaching could win games and advance in the tournament.

Ten years in, I’m still a bit confused about what the expectations should be for Utah basketball in a P5 conference. It’s a different animal. It’s obvious we don’t recruit at the same level of Oregon, UCLA, or Arizona. Lately, we haven’t recruited to the level of UW or USC, although Larry has brought in some nice talent here and there.

What else is odd has been the schizophrenic nature of this conference. With the talent in the West, the PAC12 should routinely have a team in the Elite 8/Final Four. I think it’s clear where Utah football slots in the conference, but basketball is another story. I’m still trying to figure it out.

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Utah should make the tourney 4 times in ten years. Minimum.

In my opinion, recruiting has been an issue for at least five years if not longer. As noted by all of us, the annual turnover was a killer. I am aware that turnover is the nature of the beast, all programs have some and some have a lot. I don’t know if Utah’s turnover is average, over or under. But excuses were made beginning pretty early about the kids who elected to leave. That most were bad apples, who were cancer to the program, who needed to go. Only when that occurs year after year, the players are not the common denominator. That is the staff recruiting and the head coach. Honestly, we have to stop blaming players and look to leadership.

The other trend besides continuity destroying money blowing player turnover is the shift in recruiting. Utah secured its fair share of local kids, who have been Ute fans since forever. A lot of the recruiting moved to foreign players who did not secure the same level of interest in other US programs. That was initially a stroke of genius until it became the dominant source of players. Utah also picked up some terrific US guys, some of whom became fan favorites. They stayed, they contributed. Those players became rarer.

I have wondered, just speculating, on the reasons why these shifts in recruiting. Was it just what was going on in college basketball? Was it on something else? A few times, Utah invested significantly in a guy to get him eligible, then at the last minute they signed elsewhere. Why? One thought was on what recruits heard from the extant players themselves on recruiting trips. Were kids in the program less than fully supportive? Were they in essence discouraging recruits from signing for whatever reason? I don’t know. None of this may be true also. But I am perplexed.

I’d like to know more about some of these things, but alas, we will likely not know.

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It was strange to see our recruiting go basically nowhere immediately after our Sweet 16 run with LK. I knew we were in trouble the way those next two recruiting cycles went.

Then we suddenly had a cycle that looked promising when Timmy Allen committed and a bunch of other guys (Hendrix, etc.) who are no longer here and not long after that Jones for the following class. I thought we had gotten over whatever recruiting drought we’d experienced (some suggested LK was shooting too high after the S16 run).

But in the last couple of years with the attention turning so hard toward Europe, it just smells of giving up on U.S. players. I have absolutely zero problem with bringing in Euro players. But if it becomes our main source for talent, that’s a recipe for failure.

That’s why right now, while there are 100 different philosophies for who to hire next (and as the pendulum swings, you always want what the last coach was not) I’m feeling like I just want a guy who can convince talent to come to SLC. I don’t care if the guy can coach — he can fill out a staff for that. I want a cool, magnetic figurehead that guys want to come play for.

Again, I know that’s more of a reaction to where we just came from and I know it’s the wrong answer, it’s just how I’m feeling as a burned fan at the moment.

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Me too. Harlan did not just fire K3 without a huge plan in place. So the man is working something and likely has some deep pocket fans supporting him. We are not likely to know anything until the NCAA is about completed.

But I hear massive support for Johnnie (or Johnny) Bryant, who played for Utah from 2004 to 2007 and earned All Mountain West Conference honors. See his bio here.

Despite not having head coaching experience, JB was on the Jazz staff in 2012 as a player development assistant and was promoted to assistant coach in 2014 when Quin Snyder became head coach. In 2020, Bryant moved to the New York Knicks as an assistant head coach.

Bryant, an Oakland, CA native, stayed in SLC and his family was involved in the community as JB started his own business. Moreover, he specifically became a skills development coach with his own Bryant Skills Academy in SLC. That got him to the Utah Jazz, where he moved into the pro ranks and ascended rapidly. He has demonstrated that he knows how to develop players. Obviously, Bryant has relationships with NBA players and coaches, can talk about professional BB with recruits.

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I agree. And yet I feel sheepish admitting it. Our basketball program is living grossly below its means. We were a 3 or 4 out of 10 school anyway as a high mid major.

People forget, this school and its fans and boosters KNOW what successful basketball looks like and feels like. For all of their recent success, it’s STILL new to Oregon. And ASU and OSU still feel lucky for what they get. That’s not us.

I know we’re not UCLA, and not even Arizona of late (though historically we’re in the same zip code). But I think what Oregon and Arizona enjoy today (minus the bag men) is “gettable” for the U. We “get” basketball here. Deep down, we’re still a basketball school which is not what I would say about 9 of our 11 conference mates.

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It is very hard to watch when an honorable man is held accountable for his performance and the coaches offering payola continue to prosper.

It would be nice to see the NCAA step up and make some of this more “right”, but I do not expect it.

As my father used to ask, “Who ever told you the world would be fair?”

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