Best ever Utah Football Team?

I guess what you are arguing is that our current team has more depth than past teams. That may be true. We are very deep at RB and on the defensive line. We are not deep on the offensive line. I think we have more serviceable WRs right now, but the teams of the past probably had better WRs. I don’t think our secondary or LB units are particularly deep.

I disagree strongly that losing Huntley would be something this team could overcome. Huntley is the #1 reason this team is as good as it is. He’s the main thing separating this team (historically good) from the Utah teams of the past 5 years (good but not historically good).

Did we not suffer injuries in 2004 and 2008? I’m willing to guess that we suffered just as many as we do now. If anything, something that really stands out in our stellar years is that we’ve had good luck with injuries to key players.

Speaking of injuries, did anyone else see the stat last week that in 12 years of coaching at Alabama, Nick Saban had never before needed to start a 2nd string QB due to injury? He’s in the toughest P5 conference…injuries are about bad luck and not about conference affiliation.

The whole idea that every other week in the MWC conference is a bye game is an insult to our past and is born of P5 hubris. Is New Mexico in 2004 really that different from Colorado in 2019? I don’t think so. Sagarin ranks our 2019 schedule at #40 overall. Our 2004 SOS was #67, and 2008 was #56. The primary difference is that they gave us Pitt in 2004. Had they given us a top team, that SOS would have been much stronger.

In summary:

2004: if you have to pick one team in a head-to-head against another, you pick this team
2008: the most impressive accomplishment in Utah history, Sugar Bowl victory and a national title with an asterisk
2019: potential to eclipse both 2004 in power and 2008 in accomplishment.

Here’s what is going on in this discussion:

The “have nots” have quickly turned into the “haves”. We argued until we were hoarse in 2004 and 2008 that a non-BCS team could be considered to be as good as a BCS team. Now that we are in the P5, we use the same arguments, void of logic, that were used against us back in the day. The point of this is, I assume, to keep the “have nots” out of the running and to feel good about being a P5, but it is not honest and is not fair to the great teams of our past. The Pac-12 itself viewed our accomplishments as worthy of inclusion, not as inferior.

To justify our argument as a “have”, we use the fact that 2 of our first 3 Pac-12 seasons were not very good (ignoring that our very first Pac-12 team was actually good). Somehow, this is used as evidence that our MWC teams must not have been very good either.

The 2008 team played more top 25 opponents than the 2019 team has. That team was 3-0 vs the Sagarin top 30. Our current team is 1-1, and if we take care of business, that could end up being as good as 4-0 or 4-1 by season’s end (USC is very close to falling out of the top 30). The 2004 team was 1-0. We can never erase the fact that we lost to a USC team that has at least 4 losses, and that’s something that can never be true about the 2004 or 2008 teams.

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No offense to 2009-2019 RockerUte but I am not sure the Pac12 of today is that far of a step up from 2008 schedule. As I pointed out, even with a P5 schedule, you played more Top 25 teams.

Yes, I would also say the 2008 team IS THE National Champs. They would have cooked Urban and those Gators that season.

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I agree that would end the argument.

TCU won the conference in their third season and was robbed of a playoff birth.

I’m not sure what the week-in-week-out argument is really about. Is it that we play a tougher schedule now? I don’t disagree with that. Nobody does (even though the difference is not as large as some people think - see SOS rankings). I only disagree with the argument that uses our stronger SOS now means to disparage our former great teams. The 2004 and 2008 teams were truly great and as truly great teams, they would have been successful in any conference. I thought that was what this was all about.

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Last word is overrated. What matters is that I have something to do at work.

I think we agree then. I think 2004 beats 2008/2019 head to head, and I think my mind can still be changed by 2019. I don’t even care much about the actual rankings. You can make a good case for any of these three teams. I just get worked up whenever I see people say that our great MWC teams couldn’t have handled a P5 schedule - there’s just no evidence of that, and it serves no purpose to say it!

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Hmmm. The 2004 team was good (yes, I followed Utes then). Are they good as the team in 2008 that defeated 4 top 25 teams? Who knows. The best team they played was 8 win Pitt. Basically only 4 teams with winning (not .500) records. VERY WEAK body of work to compare.

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According to Sagarin, #23 Texas A&M was the best team that Utah played in 2004. UNC was in the 30s. BYU, Wyoming, and New Mexico were in the 40s. Pitt was #55. Such an insult to have us play Pitt that year.

Really, the thing about 2004 was that they passed the eye test more than any team ever has. At no point in the season was there even an ounce of nervousness with the team. As a fan, there was no drama at all that season, other than the high drama of becoming the first BCS buster and playing in a big time bowl for the first time. But you could not watch that team without seeing greatness.

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That and no drama since they didn’t play a team that was ranked. As you said, Texas A&M was your best Sagarin rated team. They went 7-5 that season. I’m biased because I think the team that beat the squad who would win a National Title the next year is better. Utah is the 2008 champs in my book.

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How difficult would it have been to read this thread on the old legacy site? :rofl:

I totally get that. On paper, how can you pick 2004? And, of course, 2008 gave us our greatest game and only national title. The people who saw the 2004 team, though, know how good it was. All we can do is be witnesses to what we saw.

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I agree with that, in 2004 I pretty much knew we would win every game, there was never a doubt in my mind going into any of those games, and the margin of victory reflected that fact. Even during the first half of UW game, I just kept saying to the wife (who was panicky) that all we needed to do was stay in the game and the second half we would pull away.

The difference this year is that it’s our defense and running games that are so dominant, so rather than RUTSing the first half and coasting the second, we are beating them down in the first half to stomp on them in the second. Nevertheless, to someone who knows the game, you can see the direction the game is going. And again, but for a myriad of blown redzone opportunities, USC would have been the same story. They were thrilled that game ended when it did, because we simply ran out of time to erase the missteps that lead us there.

And that is the one thing that worries me with this team vs 2004 is that if we have a couple of miscues, we aren’t quite electric enough offensively to be assured the win. 2004 was simply a race up the scoreboard that our opponents couldn’t hope to keep up with.

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Totally agree but only cause Alex Smith got screwed over by happenstance. If he had been behind Farve for 3 years he would still be playing at green bay an in my opinion have had a better career than Rodgers

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The 2019 team is deeper, but if you take the 2004 team as they played in the bowl game. And the 2008 team that won the sugar bowl I don’t know that the 2004 team doesn’t win between those two. I think both of those two had a better Oline and better receivers than the 2019 version.

All three QBs were very good, but with different styles. Huntley this year is almost an Alex Smith clone given how well he’s hitting receivers.

The defensive backfield is probably better than those two, but not by much. I actually think the position group on this team that is clearly better than the other two is at linebacker.

ASU was ranked.

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It would be interesting to know the number of pro players off each team and their longevity. I would guess that both Smith and Weddle off the 2004 team had the biggest impact as pros.

Yes, but you played Arizona. They were 3-8.

Now, now. You’re getting close to trolling. Don’t do that. You said someone was being “unfair to this year’s team which has played zero Top 25 teams.” I was merely observing that ASU was ranked at the time we played them. And we haven’t played Arizona yet this season. Try to keep up, amigo.

“Ranked at the time we played them” is a worthless descriptor. The only thing that matters is if a team is ranked at the end of the season.

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Absolutely right. I was just responding to the post that said Utah “has played zero Top 25 teams” this season. I was kind of nit-picking, but I was standing up for truth, accuracy, and the American Way.

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By the way, I just heard on the Riley show that Alabama is 65th in strength of schedule among the 65 power 5 teams.

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That’s because “they can’t find anyone who wants to play them”
Right :wink:

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