Are the Pac 12 teams a fit for the Big 12?

in context of what 's happening that battle is like two homeless people fighting over a half empty can of beer they found

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Been there myself increasingly over the last few years. As college football has increasingly moved into an official NFL B league and TV product, the money has damaged the sport and worse, undermined the academic focus and affordability of most universities. I read a few years ago how few football programs were profit centers for schools vs the large majority where they are a hyped expense that gets passed in to students already buried in debt. I like Triple A ball and don’t associate it with the U…perhaps it’s time to do the same with football. :man_shrugging:t2:

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TBH I have been less than impressed with Leg Research’s ability to conduct legal research. Also, the recent SCOTUS case casts doubt.

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Not sure that the OLRGC would reach a similar conclusion under the current SCOTUS.

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This makes sense between Utah and BYU, but there was also resistance in the PAC 12 to adding Baylor and TCU (top academically behind UT) several rounds back because of religious affiliation. Neither of these schools were or would beat on less religious schools. But these 2 plus a couple other adds (UT, OU - not terribly ranked versus bottom 5-6 of the PAC) would have contributed to the academic strength of the PAC - not research but in academic rankings like US News and the others. It would have also saved the PAC. And I think all 4 would have done it! Maybe this wasn’t Utah. Was Utah even in the PAC at that time? If I recall, this was coming primarily from the CA schools which I think would never be added because of this + general cultural fit. Although I assume they would never want to join. But this created a decent level of animosity in the Big 12 which is being displayed in this round of re-alignment. Can’t we all just find a way to get along? : ))

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I’m giving some expanded answers because it covers some points I’m curious about including academics. And I’m curious about these things with Utah more than all 8 new teams. But I may be misunderstanding the context of your question. First, all 4 new PAC schools are strong and will add to the total Big 12 value. And all 4 will take a step up in value. If you’re including the prior 4 additions, as it stands today BYU is the only one that’s revenue positive (viewership) and it will certainly be in the top half and maybe top quartile in 2023. The other 3 are seriously revenue negative but I think UCF will grow fast simply because of enrollment.

Value = Viewership. So if we’re talking about athletics only, The Big 12 is significantly ahead of the PAC which contributed to the current situation with contracts. Naturally, Networks charge more to advertisers based on audience size. Then the networks pay more to the conferences who write bigger checks to the schools.

2022 Figures

  • PAC 12 top regular season game with Utah (best of the 4 new): UU vs USC @2.74Million
  • PAC 12 champ viewership: UU vs USC @5.97M

- USC is leaving.

  • 2022 Big 12 top regular season (minus UT & OU): BU vs TCU @4.35M
  • Big 12 champ viewership: KSU vs TCU @9.41M

The 4 PAC schools are on the bottom half of the conference for this measure. Someone can pull the viewership numbers for all games from the list that I’ll link, minus UCLA, USC, OU, & Texas game to confirm, but I have zero doubt just based on the above numbers that include USC. Sports in the Big 12 are just a bigger thing. And the timezone helps. The lower viewership technically makes the PAC schools revenue negative.

In the past few months, the Big 12 stated they wanted to add revenue positive schools but some may be “investments”. These 4 are viewership investments. I think the investment will pay off FAST, especially with Utah. When it’s time for the next contract, these investments will strengthen the value big time. I’ll be curious to see the Utah vs Baylor numbers. Will they be higher than the above USC ones? Is so, watch out in 2024.

Utah is too good of an on the field product to have the viewership numbers it has in the PAC. Just hopefully the on the field product isn’t so good when we play.

And what does this do for academics? With Baylor’s athletic success, academic funding has accelerated. This includes the endowment which fights back and forth with TCU for the largest in the Big 12, and will continue to be 1-2 in the new Big 12. Applications for admissions have also skyrocketed which means credentials for every incoming class gets better and better. The growing athletic brand grows the total brand. This is a total reversal of the situation when I went to Baylor.

If I were Utah, I would be jumping up and down over this possibility.

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What about Holy War? Shouldn’t that now be between the two most religious schools, Baylor and TDS? :grin:

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Where the Southern Christians and the Mormons play a game that the Catholics end up winning?

Like when the Methodists and Mormons did the same thing?

:wink:

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It’s White Chick Wakanda. So many women who love shiplap.

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I’ll let you guys keep it. : )) But yes, I think the BU vs BYU game will be a good money game.

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We need to try harder to schedule the Catholics. I’d definitely like a shot at them.

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Looking at future Non-Con the Utes have some big holes with this move:

I’d be on the horn with Oregon, UCLA and UW trying to get a consistent home and home.

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Hi BearsFan,

Glad to have you here and glad to be in the B12. We loved being in the P12 and that has always been the source of our reluctance for change but such is life.

RIP Pac 12. We had some great times.

Big 12 time now. Sadly, our new conference is clearly second tier behind the Big 10 and the SEC so I am glad that all of the 4 corners schools got on board and will be rooting for the success of every Big 12 program. Yes that even means I’ll be rooting for BYU. I can’t believe I just wrote that but I did. We need every B12 team to show out in OOC games and that will be worth watching the Zoobs be insufferable.

I am excited for football and have very low expectations for basketball in the near future. I expect the Running Utes to take some serious lumps.

What do you expect for the Utes? Who will we enjoy playing and with whom will we feel some natural friction?

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Good lord. Why in the hell are we playing at Wyoming in two years???

Also, I hope Harlan is on the phone right now trying to find home games in 2024 to replace byu and Baylor, since we know we will be playing byu and very possibly Baylor. Unless they want to keep Baylor on a a “non-conference” game if we don’t happen to be playing them as a conference game.

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It’s wild but not unheard of for a P5 to do this. Why is Alabama playing at USF in the next couple of years? That said at least USF has a pro stadium and recruits around it.

Yeah. The lights don’t even work in Laramie.

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I would def have swapped Wyoming for a San Diego, San Jose St or Fresno State. Someone at Utah must have a friend in the Wyoming athletic department.

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This move really messed up our OOC schedules in the future. In 24, 26, and 27 two of what would have been non-conference games are now teams in our conference.

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You miss the point that Utah is an AAU school, and we’re damn proud of it. I think only Colorado, Kansas, Arizona, and Arizona State are members (along with Utah, of course). I am an academic, so this matters, and the Big 12 just lacks that academic (as ridiculous as it may be in this all about money world) standing that the PAC12 had.

Not that my school asked my opinion, but I wish there was an alternative.

Plus, I loathe having to play (and beat once again) those losers in the Team Down South (BYU Zoobs). For non-Utah residents, it’s a stupid game against an arrogant university that isn’t even close to Utah in academics.

You’ll see a lot of annoyance of being in the Big 12 and playing those Mormons.

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Fellow Big12er here and TCU and Baylor are absolutely not the top academic schools in the Big 12. No offense to those schools at all but they are each largely meccas for religious students looking for higher education. This is not to say that they aren’t great schools but they are not near the top. Research pales in comparison to the other public and land-grant universities. Respectfully, Baylor was balked at because the university’s mission is vastly different than other public and private universities.

USNWR is largely unreliable for a pure academic measurement because they use several non-academic factors and have recently been criticized for “pay to play” posturing. Several schools are also reviewing their participation with the outlet’s metric.

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