Are the Pac 12 teams a fit for the Big 12?

Found that thread that you refer to on FishDuck. It has been an interesting read.



BU, you need to understand the context of Utah and BYU to understand our ambivalence to the B12 idea.

For decades Utah was the little brother and got handled by BYU with a ton of religious overtones involved. It wasn’t just BYU fans looking down on non-Mormons as heathen scum, but also looking down on non-BYU Mormons at Utah as being inferior. Utah fans are a mixture of Mormon and non-Mormon, but we’re united in our collective disdain for BYU.

I don’t know if there’s a more dysfunctional rivalry in the country, based on the cultural and religious overtones. I’m sure the BYU side has their own stories about being offended.

Eleven years ago we hit the jackpot and have enjoyed being separated from BYU nation. This may be the primary tacit reason we’re cool on the idea of getting connected with them again.

Hope that makes sense.


This is a little dramatic, but here’s a view of the B12-PAC12 showdown from the B12 side:

Unleash Chaos. Only One Will Survive. It’s Time For The Big 12 To Sweep The Deck And Eliminate The Pac 12. Big 12 Leaders Set To Meet Tuesday July 5th. Here’s How The League And Brett Yormark Can Do It. – Ryan Hyatt’s Raiderland (

Again, I want to see what Kliavkoff is going to do.

Lotta drama…


All I really want to add to that is the problem is primarily the self-righteous BYU fans. Normally the sporting side of things, with a few exceptions, has been good between the schools.


Here’s a question for BU:

How many of the slated B12 schools bring in enough money to justify being in a possible PAC-B12 merger?


Yes. For 2 decades, the 70’s and 80’s. The 90’s and 00’s were split and Utah owned them in the 2010’s.

No need to go over what happened prior to the 70’s.


Definitely a boat load of drama. It is hard to disagree much with the article you linked.


BBBBAAAHHH, just have the PAC 12 change the name to the PAC. Then it doesn’t matter how many schools we have.

There are too many things that add to the value of a PAC school that transcend athletics. The only identity the BIG 12 has is athletics. The research and enterprise deals we were making in the luxury boxes during games with our counterparts were worth more than the sporting event that brought the parties together. You won’t have that with the BIG 12. Had that mattered to them, BYU wouldn’t have even got a sniff.

We will figure out a path forward. Maybe it ends up in the BIG 12, but a PAC with 10 teams would work, too.

Let’s see what happens when the B1G is dealing with sending non revenue teams to the equivalent of Hawaii. Better yet, how their fans deal with a 10:30PM kickoff or 11:30PM tipoff. Without a mechanism to create some amount of compactness and economies of scale, doubling your revenues and your costs is a zero sum game.


I suspect Utah and the Arizona schools will apply for Big 12 membership. Since USC and UCLA have slipped athletically, the cachet/street cred of the PAC is down. Most of my fellow Utah fans won’t admit that, though. Utah will do just fine culturally in playing Baylor, Tech, TCU, Cincy, Houston, etc. it’s about time we weaned ourselves away from ephemeral California-driven sports conferences.

Other than the ephemeral California high school sports have a ton of talent to recruit from.


One thought I have is a huge liability we’ve had in the PAC-NN is games that start late and commonly end around 2AM in the Eastern time zone. (Of course the reverse situation is that when games start at Noon in the East, people out on the west coast are generally up by 9AM ) Greatly hurts TV ratings when games take place with many potential viewers asleep.

If we’re in an expanded/merged league that includes UCF, Cincinnati, and West Virginia, etc., those schools/fans won’t appreciate watching their teams at such later hours and the league could perhaps push the TV networks to have more reasonable start times. (I know I never liked it when we played WAC late games at Hawaii) Would be nice if none of our home football games started after perhaps 7PM instead of all these 8:25PM starts that are common.

The BIG12 is going to come calling if they haven’t already, and if I was your AD I’d pick up the phone. Don’t wait on UW and the Ducks as they have to wait to see what ND is going to do. You don’t want to wait until it’s a fire sale and you HAVE to move.

Stanford and Kal are not going to want to deal with the new landscape of college football. They will be playing at a lower level in less than 10 years. Who cares what Oregon St. and the Cougs do?



Kinda sounds like you hope we don’t end up in the same conference as Southern Cal.


After having to play Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, and Norte Dame every year it’s all relative.

And Waco is an underrated charming community.


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The only thing Waco has going for it is Chip and Joanna Gaines… and that point is very debatable.


You might see two of those schools every other year. In a 16 team league Rutgers, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois Minnesota and Maryland say hey


Visiting the Branch Davidian compound…


Hey, you go to one game there and the next thing you know you’ll be looking for an underpriced craftsman style bungalow. Early retirement beckons.


I feel like Utah would be fine in the B12. That said, I’m hoping the remaining PAC schools hold the line. The travel nightmare that U$CLA will face in the B1G is going to hurt their programs (maybe not as much as their hiring incompetence/underachieving has, but it’s not a positive).