Different opponent on the road. Same outcome I know I know 25 games

And they are still “young”. The more I watch of this team and coaching staff the more I question the program. The young excuse only goes so far.
I won’t be surprised if Allen and Gach enter the transfer portal at the end of the season. They both appear frustrated with the situation.
Brandon Carlson seems to improving and will likely end up being a significant upgrade over Jayce Johnson after all

Irhers have mentioned IF larry can keep the talent here next year could be good. That seems like a huge IF st the moment

If those players transfer, I think Larry is in deep ****.


Different opponent…same result on the road.

At this point of the season, playing the maturity card gets pretty stale. This team is going to get rolled in the first round of the tourney in Vegas.

We will be lucky to see an NIT bid playing the way we are playing now. Champions win on the road. Championship contenders win some of their road games, This team can’t win a road game to save its own life right now.

If any of the starting 5 hit the portal, it may be time to start shopping for a new HC. We’ve seen too many kids bolt over the last few seasons, and we call it “rebuilding.” Championship teams don’t rebuild, they reload.


Allen and Gach ought to be frustrated with their performance well ahead of any situation.


Amen to that. I get that Both has some injury issues, but he has been playing bad before and since he’s been back. And Timmy, OMG, he has turned into a turnover machine. He needs to understand and embrace that he is going to be doubled inside of 10’, he is going to be left open to shoot outside 10’, and he is NOT going to get calls when he initiates contact on the road.

At this point, I feel like the only critical players that absolutely can’t transfer, are Rylan and Carlson. Not that I don’t think we’ll be much better if everyone sticks around, but those two guys are absolutely critical to next year. For the rest, Both, Timmy, Riley in particular, need to play much better for this team to win next year or ever.

The big question/problem is always whether they will play better if they stick around. Jayce is a good example, we hung onto him for 3 years, and while his numbers improved a little, personally I don’t think he was all the much better of a player as a Junior compared to when he was a Freshman. Somebody arguing with me sent me the numbers once upon a time, and yes they were better but Carlson will be better by end of this year than Jayce ever was. Timmy has some limitations, outside shooting being biggest, will he be able to address that? Both can’t hit a shot anymore, has defensive lapses, and turns the ball over at a pretty good clip. Can/will he be able to address that? Riley needs to be able to hit open 3’s on the road, can he? To me these are the big questions.

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I disagree. I believe that Gach, Allen, and Battin are critical as well. Otherwise, we have another team made up of entirely freshmen and sophomores. Rinse and repeat. I have no reason to believe that those 3 won’t be better next year (despite what happened with Jayce). All three have improved from last year.

We can see Carlson improving week-to-week right now. Allen, Gach, and Battin have stagnated. It will be a test of their internal desire to improve to see where they go from here. I think they’re capable, but they’re going to have to want it.

For comparison, after the Alamo Bowl we were talking to Orlando Umana at the airport the next morning. His take: “We just have to work harder.” I liked that.

Well said, and Rylan is getting better week by week. He’ll have some really bad games as he has the ball in his hands all the time and teams throw different looks at him. But overall his shooting confidence is up, his decision making ebbs and flows but on whole is getting better. Seeing guys like Pritchard close up can’t help but make him better. But yeah, those three need to do better (not necessarily more, just better).

They might have improved from last year, but they need to get a lot better next year for it to matter. Not to beat a dead horse, but they have to all three be offensive threats, and they just aren’t right now. Not one of them can make 3’s reliably, Battin makes some but its so hit and miss that he isn’t forcing the defense to play him out there. Seems like Both hasn’t made a 3 in forever, and it’s just not Timmy’s game at all. So they pack it in, which limits everyone. And Both used to be a good answer for slashing and driving, but he is really struggling there too. Battin is no good off the bounce, and Timmy is only good if he gets the calls, if he doesn’t it’s a sure turnover. I’m willing to concede this year, but I’m focusing on next year, and while I don’t want them to transfer, if you would tell me that one of them would leave but a Delon Wright would replace them… that’s a different story. Ideally this team stays together and gets a lot better together, agreed.

That said, I have turned the corner on the whole transfer thing. With the portal, it’s always going to be part of the game, and nobody that has left has really made me miss them. Tell me who left that is really blowing up for their new squad? Who would have stayed that would be making a difference in this team staying home vs NCAA appearance? In regards to Larry, I guess what I’m most disappointed in when looking back is that he didn’t have enough solid recruits coming behind Jacob/Delon and their peers, so we’ve just been adrift for several years now. I’m back to the fact that it’s not the transferring that is killing us, its the recruiting. So that brings me full circle to the thought that if Both, Allen, & Battin can’t get a lot better by next season, then we continue to struggle, and if one or more leaves, and we can’t fill that hole with somebody who can make a difference, then we remain adrift.

But to be clear, I’m not saying that i know or even think they can’t, I just know they need to. And I’m also not saying I think one or more of them transfer, because I think that would be likely not be in their best interest.

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Our 3 sophomores are all starting to really struggle. At this point, surprised Both has the green light behind the arc because he’s having a lot of oh-fer nights (talking 0-4 here not 0-1). Allen is really trying too hard to get the hoop through multiple defenders and either getting stuffed or missing wildly or turning it over much of the time. Battin hits a shot or two every once in a while, but not consistent at all.

The freshmen are showing some promise. Carlson is starting to blossom and against Stanford a few weeks ago, had the best game by a Utah big man seen in quite a while. I have a lot of high hopes that he’ll continue to progress. Jones has had some sparkling games, some not so good. May need a few other teammates to be an outside threat so the opponent can’t put all the pressure on him as most of his treys lately are well guarded or rushed and often well beyond NBA 3 pt range. Jantenun shows a lot of potential and I feel he is particularly good at receiving the pass and immediately taking it to the hoop before the defense can react. He has a knack for rebounding too.

Would help if this team can make the NIT and get a game or two at a tournament level. And as inconsistent as the sophs have been lately, really need that returning experience next season to compliment the incoming highly touted class.

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Both’s game is based on his athletic ability–jumping & speed. His knee injury has therefore really impacted his game–not sure when it started. Not sure he will ever be full speed this year. Allen has improved this year & now has the basis for an outside shot–no reason with a full year more of work he won’t be a decent shooter.
Seems like most players transfer for playing time or want a different role. The 3 sophs all get plenty of playing time & their roles are pretty open–so I don’t see them leaving & having to sit for a year.
This was not a season to get excited about–growing pains. If Martinez is as good as advertised next year could be special.
And why when Oregon has not lost a home game would the Utes beat them in Eugene?

P.S. Tillman hurt his knee & is out for the rest of the season. Since 1/1/20 in 8 of 11 games in Mt.West competition he scored in single digits


(Sigh). Devon Daniels had 25 for NC State tonight against Duke.

I sincerely hope we can keep this year’s contributors.

My only contribution to this thread is to note that Season 5 of Better Call Saul starts this weekend. NFL Combine starts this weekend too I believe.

Yep, that’s the one transfer I really thought could’ve helped the Utes down the line, even more than Tillman. Daniels can get to the basket against almost anyone, like Allen, but has more lift and also has a better outside shot.

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I just checked his season averages and they arent bad, but his numbers last season were flat. This year he seems to have made a jump. I agree, he might be the one player that would be helping us if he stayed. But hard to say how much.

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Ok fine, I give up. This now seems like another year where the team actually gets worse the deep into the season we go. Larry keeps saying the Timmy is learning to make the right play instead of forcing it, but yet each game is the same, I might start calling him Timmy Turnovers. It was nice to see some life out of Both, but he still needs to make shots. Although in fairness his numbers would be slightly better if officials knew the rules on goal tending. Sure could tell Rylan was ailing. Micki has to be really frustrated, once again he plays his ass off and probably overall had on of the better performances of the night, but just can’t crack the starting rotation. Carlson needs to know that it is critical for him to play without fouling as presently he is basically our whole offense. I expect to see Battins face on milk cartons because he was MIA. All in all, that was a sad game last night.

At this point, watching this team, they are young, but this team needs A LOT of HELP before it will be any good even next year. The ■■■■■■ thing about transfers, is that will provide an excuse. But as bad as this team is playing, I think even if nobody transfers, unless next years class brings in some significant scoring punch, we will miss the tournament again next year. There is just nobody on this team outside of Carlson that I am confident will develop into a reliable scoring threat night after night. Both could, but will he? Rylan could, but will he? (I still really like him as a pg) Timmy is way to one dimensional, he could develop an outside shot, but will he? Battin I think is what he is, as is Jaxon. I just don’t know where the points come from…

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Another year? Typically, Utah gets better as the season progresses. That’s be Larry’s MO. This year has been the opposite, and it’s soul crushing as a fan.

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Fair point, I guess that is why I was optimistic with some nice OOC wins. But this team is clearly struggling.

I’ve been patient and defended Larry for a long time, but the U b-ball program is so much like BYU football that it is now downright painful. Each year has some promise of something, like we’ve got the best recruiting class, and then we underperform both on ability and expectation.

As Loyter mentioned in another thread, the non-penalties for AZ and USC has ruined college b-ball for me. I just can’t find myself caring about a game that is so clearly corrupt.

Larry signed the contract and so we need to not only be getting in the tournament every 4 years, but we should basically be in it each year. In fact I’ll say it, if we aren’t in the tournament next year he 100% has to go. And with the talent we have coming in, and if he can retain what we’ve got… the team could be a pretty fertile ground for a good coach to come in and do amazing things (kind of like when Urban showed up). I don’t think it will be hard to get the right guy.

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I agree. Next year or bust. I’d say he should be gone this year if we didn’t have such highly regarded recruits coming in. I don’t want to risk losing them.