I see. And, how does this translate to a lower ranking?
Are Utahns more poorly educated than these aliens for some reason?
A primary factor determining the ranking is selectivity of admission.
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Oh. Now, I understand. I assumed that this ranking was primarily based on quality of education.
I suppose that is a more difficult factor to calculate.
Depends on whoâs doing the ranking and what the standards are.
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So, if I am reading this correctly, the WSJ rates BYU 20th and Utah 43rd among all institutions.
Thatâs some good company for the olâ Y.
No where did I say that the LDS Church was putting more of its money into athletics, what I said was that it was allowing the athletic department to tap boosters to in order to pay higher salaries. The LDS wasnât going to pay the new basketball coach over $3 mil per year or pay assistant football coaches over $1 mil.
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Times have changed.
I still remember when Lavell Edwards used to say the âBYU fans attended games with a crisp $20 Bill in their pockets and the Word of Wisdom, and they didnât break either one.â
Because of the changes to booster participation in athletics through NIL, folks like Ryan Smith can have a bigger impact in recruiting athletes to the school than used to be the case. That noted, their impacts are nominal when you look at the likes of Oregon, U$C, or even an Oklahoma State. If Ryan really wanted to step up things, he would rip and replace the Erector Set Football Stadium with a more durable venue. Unfortunately there is no way the LDS Church is going to create a $1 Billion outlay for a $3 Billion state of the art stadium. Back in the day it was nothing short of a knock down and drag out when they funded the stadium expansion to 65,000 seats from the 47,000 seat stadium they had - and that was a bubble gum and bailing wire job.
Anyway, there is still a lot of dust in the air and not a lot of structure out there to evaluate in this brave new world of college athletics. As long as private enterprise is dictating the terms and using greed to drive the process, there is no way to know where things will fully land. We know it will have hit the bottom when the gambling industry starts funding college athletics, like it has with professional sports.
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The emperor wears no clothes.
It was even worse than that. Lavell would joke about how BYU fans would come into town clutching a ten dollar bill in one hand, the Ten Commandments in the other and leave without breaking either.
As Iâve read your comment and others that preceded it, mentioning that Utahâs formerly tight-fisted and financially hamstrung rival now has some Rice and Huntsman type heavy hitters going to bat for the athletic programs, has that finished the field leveling that began when BYU joined the Big-12 and Utah followed? Or do you (plural, not just Greginslc) think that BYU now has the upper hand?
I ask that with no smack intended. Instead, Iâm trying to gauge othersâ take on the new normal. To me, it seems like Utahâs 12 year advantage of Pac membership and the added financial resources has now been equalized, if not to the penny then at least in the same financial ballpark. It feels a bit like what I just barely remember of the late 1960s and early 1970s. Utah was top dog in the state, with pundits wondering if the sleeping giant in Provo would ever wake up.
That happened in 1972 when BYU hired Lavell. Ron McBride eventually brought Utah back to parity, with Utah then moving past BYU when the Pac called. Now things seem to be back on an even keel.
I have no idea about football. It does appear that Ryan Smith is ensuring byuâs basketball program has a lot more money for coaches & NIL than Utahâs program has.
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Utah Stateâs Great Osobor is reportedly getting $2 million to transfer to UW for one year.
Insanity
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BYU is still 3-5 years from football parity (maybe). Itâs important to note it took Utah a while to get the depth it needed to field a competitive team. Success in football isnât just how good your #1âs are, you need backups with the same levels of talent to succeed. Utah has been working like mad to get their depth to this level. Basketball, with all the one and done and other things in play, it appears money can go a longer way to fielding a winning team, and BYU is certainly doing that now. With that all saidâŚ
Even with the money, it will still be hard to recruit players to Provo, unless the standards office goes back to enforcing the honor code like it did during the Watts-Edwards era. Given the proliferation of social media, itâs unlikely that will happen. Their best hope is to find more guys like Ty Demter - players who arenât LDS, but basically already live the lifestyle so they wonât be a problem. Likely, like Ty, they may even convert a few. Money can go a long way, but the schoolâs Board of Trustees is still going to hold sway over what the coaches,AD, and boosters get to do.
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Magicians are expensive
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Iâll buy that and appreciate your take on things. The depth issue is big and a major reason why BYU started well last fall, better than I expected, and then finished on the fade as injuries and inadequate depth took their toll. I think itâs also why Iâll be happy with 6-6 this fall and keep building to the future.
As for the Honor Code, Iâd like to see that replaced with the same requirements that are in place for a temple recommend. However, thereâs a lot of institutional inertia on that front, so Iâm not holding my breath and understand your take on it. Utah will get athletes that BYU canât and shouldnât consider; witness what happened during Gary Crowtonâs final year on that front (BYUâs on-field issues were minuscule by comparison, IMO). However, being in a P4 conference will also open the door to top-level LDS athletes that previously told BYU no thanks, due to its MWC/independent status. How many that will sway is anyoneâs guess at this point.
In any case, thanks for your thoughts. Iâll settle for parity on paper, with time still needed to catch up and build depth on the field, though apparently not so on the court.
Itâs hard to tell if there is parity on paper. I think maybe (?) for NIL or BoT letting boosters pay more for coaches (which is a new development). I think Utah still has a leg up on facilities (Marriott has a better crowd, but Rice Eccles South 
needs an overhaul, something I donât see happening as assets are put to other uses). There was a time I thought BYU sports would go more the way of BYU-I with the shift from Ricks (intramurals). I could still see a time when the arms race is too much and football becomes such a burden that they leave that off, create new housing on the stadium site, and build other sports up.
But the AD is doing what an AD should do, building the programs and getting into the best conference possible. I just donât know if that will always align with BoT desires where sports are an activity for students to do and represent the university (but now itâs more and more about money, esp. in revenue sports). College sports are mostly a âmarketingâ arm of a university. Of course, BYU hopes itâs a different type of marketing arm, but usually that just leads to a ND-type arrogance wins are divinely gifted.
Honor Code and attracting more of the top LDS athletes has been brought up. I think BYU fares better long term in Olympic and country-club sports (more for demographic reasons). But Utah still has some other, stronger programs (gymnastics, skiing) and programs that are developing into a more solid position (softball, volleyball, baseball, soccer, even lacrosse gaining momentum) with some just hanging around (tennis, swimming, etc.). Still some ways to go.
But I think we are talking mostly about BB and FB, where the money is being thrown around. Really, itâs more than NIL to compete for athletes, but thatâs probably a big measure of âparityâ at this point between the two Big12 Utah schools. I would still like to see more solid revenue and expense numbers (public for Utah, private, so hard to get for BYU), but if the hope is to just attract the best LDS athletes and get NIL deals to supplement that with some others, itâs going to be hard to have the depth for lasting success. We saw that Nov swoon early in the PAC12 and as injuries mount, itâs hard to stay competitive.
âUtah will get athletes that BYU canât and shouldnât consider; witness what happened during Gary Crowtonâs final year on that frontâ
seriously? That reads that Utah should consider sketchy players capable of gang rape, but byu canât and shouldnt?
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During that period, the recruiting coordinator, was quietly telling athletes that the Honor Code was no big deal, just a piece of paper to sign and then quietly ignore. That led to several athletes coming to BYU, who flat out didnât fit the universityâs expectations. Itâs also why he was not retained when Bronco took over.
Whether they would have fared well elsewhere is outside the intended context of my earlier post. An oops on my part for not adequately clarifying that. Sometimes, I forget that not everyone was there when something occurred.
Iâm not trying to stir the pot. I think both programs try to bring in the best citizens they can. It seems like its been awhile since either team had any incidents of negative/criminal player behavior. Hopefully it stays that way.
Thanks, I appreciate that. Like you, no pot stirring was intended. Instead, I was referring to a larger context, involving other athletes from that period, who left with Honor Code issues but did so with much less notoriety (thankfully) than the gang bangers, which was a huge black mark for BYU. While Iâm not privy to some othersâ issues, I suspect that they would have fared much better elsewhere and not had any problems. In addition, I never indulge in police blotter smack because it always seems to come with karma.
Whatever else one may say about Bronco (I liked him greatly), I thought he nailed it when he once said that his job was to get the right people on the (BYU) bus and the wrong people off the bus (helping them transfer to a school that fit their lifestyle better).
This is interesting. I think the idea of P5/P4 essentially died with this last round of realignment. Itâs P2 now. The Big 12 is a step up from the MWC, and we have autobid access to the fb playoff, but I have concerns about Utah and BYU slowly dying on the vine as the SEC and B1G surge ahead.
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